Badarch

Basic information
Interviewee ID: 990409
Name: Badarch
Parent's name: Genden
Ovog: Borjigon
Sex: m
Year of Birth: 1928
Ethnicity: Halh

Additional Information
Education: secondary
Notes on education: büren dund
Work: Retired, head of Ih Tamir Senior's Association
Belief: none
Born in: Galuut sum, Bayanhongor aimag
Lives in: Ih Tamir sum (or part of UB), Arhangai aimag
Mother's profession: herder
Father's profession: herder


Themes for this interview are:
(Please click on a theme to see more interviews on that topic)
work
herding / livestock
new technologies
privatization
belief


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Please click to read an English summary of this interview

Please click to read the Mongolian transcription of this interview

Translation:

Buyandelger -

Today is 5 October, 2009. I left the capital of Arhangai, Tsetserleg and came to Ih Tamir sum. Now it is 13.25 pm. I am meeting with Mr. Badarch, head of the Veterans’ committee of Ih Tamir sum. Mr. Badarch is healthy although he is over 80. He looks like someone in his 60’s. He is a smart old man. He held important government posts. You have been in the service of the Court Decision Implementation Authority since 1949, and until which year?

Badarch -

Since 1948 until 1952. At that time it was called the Correction Center under the Ministry of Public security.

Buyandelger -

Yes

Badarch -

I worked as deputy operative officer, secretary of the chairman of the operational department of the Correction Center.

Buyandelger -

Oh yes. You had an important duty. If it is not too secret, if it does not affect you in any way I hope that we can talk about it .

Badarch -

At that time I was young. Young

Buyandelger -

Аan.

Badarch -

I can’t talk about much. It is a kind of secret duty.

Buyandelger -

Aa ha. You know what you can talk about and what you cannot…

Badarch -

I was the secretary of the Division chief of the Court Decision Implementation Authority, to use the present terminology. At that time it was the correction centre.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I worked with people banned from society for criminal offences, I worked mostly with such people.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

In those days there were camps for those condemned and banned from society for such crimes as violence, abuse of responsibility, theft etc.

Buyandelger -

Okay. How many such camps were there? And how many would be held in those camps?

Badarch -

Well I don’t really know the number.

Buyandelger -

Well. Where were you? You were in which correction centre?

Badarch -

In Ulaanbaatar.

Buyandelger -

Yes?

Badarch -

It was the head office of the labor correction centers.

Buyandelger -

Okay.

Badarch -

I was at that head office. Its branches moved out and functioned as camps.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

That was it. It didn’t last long due to my poor health in about 1952, it was then called the Ministry for Public Security.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I was releived by the order of the Minister of that Ministry and returned to my home.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

This leg of mine hurt and in my prime years I was bedridden for a long time. Then there was the “Gerelt zam” (Road of light) cooperative in Ih tamir sum between 1968 and 1989. I worked as the human resources manager for over 30 years over there.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. When you worked in the Ministry of Internal Affairs [the old name for the Ministry for Public Security] what were the most common causes for punishment for those sentenced in those days?

Badarch -

I told you. It was mostly for theft, robbery and abuse of responsibility, there were mostly those kind of prisoners. In those days there were no political prisoners, this relates to the events long ago of ‘37, or ‘38.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I worked from ‘48 to ‘52, with ordinary people segregated from society.

Buyandelger -

How was the situation of prison camps of that time? How was it in comparison with nowadays?

Badarch -

The personal interest and life of the individual was different, they were segregated from society . They were put in camps. They were watched by guards.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Desertions, just like today. Homicides and such did not happen that much.

Buyandelger -

Yes?

Badarch -

Robbery, abuse of power. These kind of crimes. Mostly such cases.

Buyandelger -

Aa ha. Were there cases of embezzlement of state property ? Or not much?

Badarch -

Yes. There were. State and social ..

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It was a crime. Encroachment upon socialist property of society. Causing damage). There were those groups of people.

Buyandelger -

Aa ha. Do you remember specific examples of cases of embezzlement of state property?

Badarch -

It was decided by the courts. They came to us, as a correctional, educational place.

Buyandelger -

What did you do to educate them? What form of educational work?

Badarch -

Educational work, they were under permanent supervision. Internal, educational work was not carried out like today. Nowadays they have more people such as social workers.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

A special police officer divided them (prisoners) into groups, each group was headed by a prisoner who had previously held a responsible position or had good behavior among prisoners. They were responsible for their group.

Buyandelger -

How about food? Was it difficult ?

Badarch -

Food was a bit difficult.

Buyandelger -

Rather difficult?

Badarch -

Rather difficult. But they were not hungry, there was no hunger problem.

Buyandelger -

What was the main ingredient ? What food was given?

Badarch -

Well, there was the black, crude flour in those times.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Crude flour, coarse rice, intestines of horse and other animals were given. I do not know about administrative things.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. What was your responsibility?

Badarch -

I was (an agent) in charge of an operative group. How prisoner’s behavior was during their educational period, who was prone to crime, I was responsible for such issues

Buyandelger -

You worked at Gerelt zam cooperative for many years in charge of cadres (manager of human resources)…

Badarch -

I worked at the Gerelt zam cooperative of Ih Tamir sum of Arhangai aimag for many years, over 30 years

Buyandelger -

When exactly was Gerelt zam cooperative founded?

Badarch -

It was from 3 cooperatives. In 1938 Ih Högjliin Zam cooperative was at the former Ih Tamir sum center up to the Ih Tamir.

Buyandelger -

Was it another place?

Badarch -

Another place, above there the place called Han Öndör, there is no trace of it now, governor and administration of Han Öndör banner was situated at the (sum) center

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Then in 1945, or 1944 in the north, Gerelt Zam cooperative was founded - about the ‘ 40s? As for the Bayan Tal cooperative of Bugat it was founded in 1959.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Those 3 cooperatives united and became the cooperative of Ih Tamir sum of Arhangai aimag

Buyandelger -

What cooperatives?

Badarch -

Högjliin zam, cooperative 44th, Bayan tal cooperative

Buyandelger -

These 3 cooperatives were merged and became Gerelt Zam cooperative, right?

Badarch -

That is the history of Gerelt Zam cooperative

Buyandelger -

Aan, Perhaps those cooperative had low capacity and potential, that was why they were merged? Right?

Badarch -

Yes, right

Buyandelger -

Cooperatives with low capacity and functions were merged.

Badarch -

Yes. Yes. And they had also development aims. They were merged for development.

Buyandelger -

How many animals, how many members ?

Badarch -

It is written in the history of the cooperative.

Buyandelger -

Аа ha.

Badarch -

Someone has it or not? There is a historian Lonjidtseren. He probably knows about animals and others

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Namjilsüren knows better

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I do not know much as I was in the capital in 1939 unti the ‘ 50s

Buyandelger -

Aa ha. When you arrived how many animals did the cooperative have?

Badarch -

About 60 or 70 thousand heads of animals, about 100 thousand heads of animals at the level of sum, and the sum alone had 60-70 thousand heads of animals. Later it reached 100 thousand perhaps.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I worked under the leadership of 3 chairmen.

Buyandelger -

Let us talk about them. Who were they? What work did they do?

Badarch -

Minjüür darga

Buyandelger -

Hero of Labor?

Badarch -

Hero of Labor Minjüür

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

And Lonjidtseren, Gendensambuu, store keeper Gendensambuu

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I worked 10 years with Gendensambuu guai, 10 years with Minjüür guai, about 2 or 3 years with Lonjidtseren. During the time of Namjig darga previous chairmen were often changed. There were Dorjsüren, Namjig darga. But I worked mostly with Minjüür guai, I spent most of my work time with Minjüür guai and Gendensambuu.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I worked with Lonjidtseren for about 3 or 4 years

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

My historican path was written in the. What was the title? Gerelt Yam cooperative of Ih Tamir sum. He will, probably, talk about it himself. There it is written I had worked for 20 years, but actually it was for 30 years. Well this is my story, my path of life. I got a bone illness when I was growing up and now limp slightly. It was like this for long time.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I was attending the first 10 year school in Ulaanbaatar then my leg began to hurt and I had to leave the school.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

You should know very well the first 10 year school named after Marshall Choibalsan.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Of course I know, yes.

Badarch -

I studied there. The knowledge and skill of the teachers in those days was very good.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Russian women teachers used to teach us the classes.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Subjects of general education, mathematics and physics, algebra and geometry were taught mostly in Russian by Russian and Mongolian teachers.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

History and geography were taught in Mongolian, that was the teaching.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Among graduates of those days now there were many Ministers, senior officials who work in the central committee and the government.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. From which grade did you drop out?

Badarch -

I left a year before I finished the 9th grade.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Then you worked with outstanding chairmen of the agricultural cooperatives.

Badarch -

Right.

Buyandelger -

I would like to hear more about them.

Badarch -

Okay.

Buyandelger -

Well?

Badarch -

Well what to say about Minjüür. Minjüür worked with me, in the court decision implementation authority by present terminology...

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

In the correction centre, he was a chief of section together with me.

Buyandelger -

Оh was he in that correction centre?

Badarch -

Yes. He worked there. As you may know in the press there was some noise calling him as Nogoon (Green) (Officers of Ministry of Internal affairs had cap with the trim of green color) Minjüür of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

Buyandelger -

/Laughed/ So he was green Minjüür of Ministry of Internal Affairs, yeah.

Badarch -

Yes. He gave an interview to your correspondents. Our Minjüür is rather open. He is good at making a living.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He has the skill of a manager. He can work with people. He can be flexible. He can be stern and make people work. He can be kind in the end and can be reasonable when it concerns the livelihood of a person.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Yes. Yes. Аа then Minjüür guai used to work in the Third Department of the Ministry of Public Security.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

And it is said that he was responsible for organizing dinners and receptions of the government and the central committee.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He was exceptionally good at those kind of things.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. In general he is a good and talented organizer.

Badarch -

Talented. Talented.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Speaking of talent he could gain access to private persons, he was responsible for the supply of food provisions to senior leaders of central committee and the government.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It is a very responsible job - various foodstuffs had to be tasted first by the people from the Ministry of Public Security.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He upheld those standards.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа

Badarch -

Many high foreign guests used to visit Ih Tamir. Oh they left always highly impressed.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

We still remember, in 1969 the 20th anniversary of the cooperative movement was observed.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Then from Uzbekistan...

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

A high Minister, a member of the political bureau of Uzbekistan of central Asia Muskhanov arrived for a visit.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He brought with him a cultural team, artists.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

After visiting the cooperative there was a reception in the cooperative canteen.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

They were taken around and saw many things, they were very happy.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It was wonderful. So in ‘69 on the occasion of the 20th anniversary Minjüür guai had become a hero of labor.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Exactly what did they see?

Badarch -

Well, there were those subsidiary workshops. Like the fodder factory. Then they visited a few herders’ families and stayed in a hotel in the north.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Since it’s a cooperative there were small workshops.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. I’d like to know about those small workshops. We don’t know much about them, what kind of workshops were they? Foreigners do not have any knowledge about them. I wish you to tell me in more detail.

Badarch -

My friends will tell you. However....

Buyandelger -

I’ll not meet anyone else. After you I’ll meet one person and then leave.

Badarch -

Okay.

Buyandelger -

So don’t leave it for others to tell. I want you to tell me everything that you know.

Badarch -

Well not really to leave to others. I have the responsibility. It will be broadcast all over the world. Probably, it is something very big.

Buyandelger -

That is the reason why I am asking you, the knowledgeable person.

Badarch -

This is a private life of a Mongol man, living across two societies.....

Buyandelger -

That’s what I want you to tell me about.

Badarch -

I have to tell truthfully, otherwise...

Buyandelger -

Therefore I wish and request you to tell me truthfully.

Badarch -

The cooperative had many sections.

Buyandelger -

Well what were those sections?

Badarch -

Well there was a fodder factory, the animal fodder section. A workshop to produce brown flour (barley flour). Wood works, small sections all engaged in economic activities. Further in the south there was a slaughter house.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Pig and chicken farms. They were all in the centre, here.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

This was a livestock cooperative.

Buyandelger -

Yes.

Badarch -

Those small subsidiaries were created by the initiatives of our Minjüür guai but the main stay of the cooperative economy was animal husbandry, wasn’t it?

Buyandelger -

Yes.

Badarch -

Then we also had a small vegetable plantation south of the mountain pass. We cultivated mainly potatoes and other vegetables. As for the animal fodder we reaped a lot.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

We had a mechanized section that made hay.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

To the north of the mountain pass cut hay was pressed in bundles. Groups of 20 or 30 worked on haymaking - Minjüür guai had many people work on preparation of animal fodder.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

This kind of work. We had received high state awards in the field of animal husbandry. There were people who were elected as members of State Ikh Khural. A milkmaid (among them) Many renowned milkmaids, Jiliisen as an example. She got state awards, she was awarded by the Order of Red Banner of Labor Merit, Honorary medal of Labor and “shock worker” medal. There were other milkmaids Baasandolgor milkmaid, Tserensosor milkmaid

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

And there were many renowned herdsdmen, famous herdsmen of that time passed away. There was a man from Bugat.. his name was Sonomtseren

Buyandelger -

Аа а.

Badarch -

From Bugat

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

From Tamir those above mentioned milkmaids were from Tamir. Last year they celebrated Labor merit of 20 persons.

Buyandelger -

Yes?

Badarch -

Have you heard about Jargalsaihan, he was nominated as a member of the State Ih Hural? He is from Arhangai

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

That Jargalsaihan himself initiated the idea and organized a celebration of labor merit of 20 veterans from each sum, 17 sum, 17 sum of Arhangai, It was indeed very nice impressive event.

Buyandelger -

Yes?

Badarch -

They celebrated the labor merit of veterans of generation and generations..

Buyandelger -

How did they celebrate? What happened?

Badarch -

Oo it was a huge event. They were received at the Cultural center, invited to a special table of honour with full food and dairy products specially prepared and brought for this occasion. Then they were invited to seats at podium, a special reporter conducted the program, introduced each of them to the public, such and such persons, milkmaids from Ih Tamir sum of Arhangai and talked about their work, achievements and merits, and made a video recording.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

They gave it (the video recording) as a souvenir to them. The sum governor’s office and veterans committee prepared the list of 20 veterans.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Prepared their biography and other materials. There were 2 elderly workers from the agricultural research center.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Both are doctors, Doctors of agricultural science

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

The list covered all layers of society, scholars, milkmaids, herdsmen, watchmen, firemen and leading public officials. They were happy and highly excited, they had a very good impression about the warm reception.

Buyandelger -

Is there any other memory about Minjüür guai that stayed in your mind? Your personal relations with him? There should be many interesting things to share?

Badarch -

As a character he was very demanding.

Buyandelger -

Yes?

Badarch -

I mentioned before. He was a man with high demands but was flexible in dealing with people, he was tough at times but he was also gentle and understanding.

Buyandelger -

How was it? Tell us an example.

Badarch -

Sometimes he scolded, called names. I was often scolded.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He visited brigades of animal husbandry with poor records, he would tell them straight what he wanted and gave orders to fulfill.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

This was the general view of that time. Although he was strict and demanding, he cared for them

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He had a good heart and strong will to help people in times of need and hardship.

Buyandelger -

Namely how did he visit and care about herdsmen? Perhaps there are memories about it. Please give us specific examples. He helped and supported herders in what way during times of hardship etc?

Badarch -

From Gendensambuu’ s brigade they sent 2 men who had lost their sight to Ulaanbaatar at the expense of the cooperative and they regained their sight. At the time of Minjüür guai. The first aid assistance and transportation was different.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Sometimes they used a truck to transport patients. Even for a pregnant women.

Buyandelger -

Аа ha.

Badarch -

on this side of things he was very demanding and responsible.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

In general the previous high officials were responsible for their work.

Buyandelger -

Right

Badarch -

Strict on timekeeping. Fulfilled their promises, right?

Buyandelger -

Right

Badarch -

Yes.

Buyandelger -

It would be better if you speak about responsibility by giving an example. It is too general. By saying he was responsible what do you mean, responsible for what, which issues? How? Give an example..

Badarch -

So now we are just talking about responsibility

Buyandelger -

Right

Badarch -

There were strict time checks whether darga was there or not. Everyone arrived on time. Everyone fulfilled their duty.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Today you will do such work, right?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Bring such and such documents for the meeting, Engineer, prepare such number of cars and send to such and such places etc.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

The workers of the cooperative central office did their given job, and an economist worked on economic and administrative matters. He worked out and prepared such documents for the meeting. The engineer prepared cars to be ready at such time. Veterinarian and zoo-technicians had to do dipping and purging of animals at certain dates. The meeting of presidium of the cooperative council discussed all these matters, made a timetable of work and gave instructions for action.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

on a certain date in July, there were various animal diseases

Buyandelger -

Yes

Badarch -

brucellosis etc.

Buyandelger -

Yes

Badarch -

Dipping and purging of animals were organized and carried out expertly. Very effective. After the work was done they carred out an evaluation of their work and reported back to the cooperative darga. The number of animals with brucellosis were divided between each brigade.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Dipping such a number of animals and reports by agricultural experts - agricultural experts of that period were highly experienced people.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Just to mention that fact…

Buyandelger -

Аа ha

Badarch -

Experts who studied agriculture before 1985 were well educated and trained. Good experts

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Responsible. Efficient and highly capable

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I am sure you also know

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. I know

Badarch -

In every field of work

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Can you tell me a little more about veterinary service, how now it has deteriorated.

Badarch -

Yes. Yes.

Buyandelger -

Will you tell in more detail about it. What did veterinarians of state farms and cooperatives undertake, let’s leave out state farms, to keep livestock healthy. There was farming but the bulk of livestock herds belonged to collectives.

Badarch -

Collectives had it.

Buyandelger -

Yes. You know very well what collectives s did to keep livestock healthy. Now the knowledge is lost. Will you tell me in detail about it?

Badarch -

I mentioned it in brief before.

Buyandelger -

I want you to elaborate on it more.

Badarch -

Livestock were put through medical examinations.

Buyandelger -

Then?

Badarch -

Well after the medical examination sick animals were separated from the herd.

Buyandelger -

It was done.

Badarch -

The result of the examination was discussed at the meeting of members of the presidium of cooperatives in presence of livestock experts, veterinarians and zoo-technicians. Next comes assistant doctors (baga emch) and a special commission was established.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It was a great order, Lonjidsüren knows it very well, he is a veterinarian, a veterinarian.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Well when spring came livestock were dipped and purgatives were administered.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

By administering purgatives parasites such as ascaris and as ascarides were eliminated.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

At that time there was good order. The work was carried out according to the schedule in the bag (brigade) of the cooperative. You see? And according to the schedule veterinarians visited the settlement ...

Buyandelger -

How many animals are there in a brigade?

Badarch -

I think in a brigade there were on average from 1000 to 2000 heads of animals.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Yes. And they went round all the brigades. It was an examination of animal health.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

And sick animals were segregated, after the segregation they were treated. Purgingn was done. There are infectious diseases, aren’t they?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Brucellosis and what else ... the other is anthrax.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Animals with symptoms of these illness were separated from the herd, they had to be segregated and the sick animals to be eliminated were eliminated by the decision of the commission this was the work that was done. It was called making the herd healthy. This process of improving livestock health was carried out very diligently.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Yes.

Buyandelger -

I think there were many people in your cooperative not just one veterinarian?

Badarch -

Many, many.

Buyandelger -

Who were they? Veterinarian, assistant veterinarians?

Badarch -

In every sum there were separate veterinary sections.

Buyandelger -

Okay.

Badarch -

There was a trained veterinarian. There were other junior officials like assistant veterinarians whose salary were paid by the cooperative.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Every bagh (brigade) had its own assistant veterinarians.

Buyandelger -

Oh I see. In every bag?

Badarch -

In every bag.

Buyandelger -

Оh I see.

Badarch -

College graduate zoo-technicians worked in cooperative administration, senior zoo-technicians served also in the administration.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Chief zoo-technician of the cooperative, college graduate zoo-technicians, economists, mechanical engineers, agricultural engineers were the cadres of the cooperative, I’m saying cooperative administration meaning that they were staff of the cooperative itself.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. They received their salaries from the cooperative, didn’t they?

Badarch -

They received it from the cooperative.

Buyandelger -

So the cooperative provided their daily substance.

Badarch -

It provided professional management.

Buyandelger -

How much money did veterinarians and zoo-technicians in those days receive as salary?

Badarch -

400 - I know that very well.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Yes. Senior specialists from 650-700. Around 750.

Buyandelger -

Did they have private livestock?

Badarch -

In those days having private livestock was shunned.

Buyandelger -

Yeah?

Badarch -

That was one of the things about society in that period. If you had 2 cows, or 20 or 30 sheep that’d almost be the end of you.

Buyandelger -

Was it?

Badarch -

There was the commune, you couldn’t have a private herd. In particular if those who were on senior positions had private livestock they were told “you are selfish. If you want you should take care of your private herd”.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Yes.It was like that in our time.

Buyandelger -

Then how about the winter provisions or if one wanted some meat in summer?

Badarch -

It was given. Supplied from the cooperative. It was arranged, arranged by the cooperative. The cooperative slaughtered animals for state procurement. That was a huge undertaking.

Buyandelger -

Yes.

Badarch -

Оh several lorries were standing ready. A state commission was present, you had a planned target to meet. It was a big thing.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. I am going to ask you. How was that meat procurement carried out? I’d like to hear about it?

Badarch -

The cooperative on the basis of unified rule supplied the meat.

Buyandelger -

Not just our cooperative but all of them for the meat reserve...

Badarch -

Аа yeas. You have to supply the meat according to a planned target, all the cooperatives had the same plan for meat supply.

Buyandelger -

For example how much was the plan for your cooperative?

Badarch -

That I don’t know, I forget.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

To transport the meat how were the carcasses of the sheep folded? What I mean is was it folded and flattened in the traditional Mongolian manner.

Buyandelger -

Yes. Yes.

Badarch -

When you load them on a lorry that way it would take less space. Now the carcass is left as it is, it is harder to load that whole carcass.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It will take up much more space, yeah?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Even such things were regulated. Requirements on sanitation were very tough.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Аа because of that some of the agricultural specialists as people did suffer a bit, there were such people. Not only some of them.

Buyandelger -

During the privatization?

Badarch -

In terms of health. Contracted brucellosis, fit young guys became lame.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. They contracted brucellosis.

Badarch -

They contracted the brucellosis infection. Most of them worked in the cooperative, mostly veterinarians and zoo-technicians contacted that disease. Fit young people ...

Buyandelger -

And that disease is hard to cure, yeah?

Badarch -

They have to be under medical care their whole life. They are under medical supervision, now injections cost a lot, some of them at a young age have become disabled, that is one side of it. They toiled hard for society, for its livestock, labor safety was poor. You are, probably, aware that compared to the present it was completely different?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

No such concrete measures are being implemented for the livestock which could be likened to those previous times.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Probably such measures are taken but they are a far cry from the past.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. There were milk farms in those days. Milk farms were operated during summer seasons, yeah?

Badarch -

Of course.

Buyandelger -

Milk farms operated. Tell me about it? I was a city girl and don’t know about the farms.

Badarch -

I thought you’d know.

Buyandelger -

Whether I know doesn’t matter. I want you to speak about it and through me tell it to the world. I leave things without speaking assuming that I’d know it. So it doesn’t matter whether I know it or not. You have seen it in real life, so you should talk about it. I have been travelling a lot as a correspondent.

Badarch -

So you should know.

Buyandelger -

I want to hear it from you. You were personally managing...

Badarch -

Well about livestock health programs I have told you. You know about veterinarians. I am not a specialist so I don’t have anything concrete to speak about… what did you just say?

Buyandelger -

Milk farms, cow farms, milk processing plant ...

Badarch -

15 milkmaids made a milkfarm.

Buyandelger -

okay?

Badarch -

Yes. A farm had in all about 150 cows, from 120-150 cows. And from 10-12 milkmaids. And they had a task to supply milk. Milk was transported from there and cream was made at the bag (brigade).

Buyandelger -

Do you remember the figure? What was the target for how many liters of milk they were to supply. How much cream and butter do you remember they were required to supply, concrete figures? Do you remember anything, approximately?

Badarch -

Milk yield of a cow if it is a pedigree cow it would be high. Yak milk yield was around 300 liters, Mongol cow from 400-500.

Buyandelger -

Per cow?

Badarch -

That was the norm.

Buyandelger -

For how long?

Badarch -

During milking season.

Buyandelger -

The milking period was when?

Badarch -

I think from June 15 to September 15? That was the milking period.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It was like that.

Buyandelger -

So it was from June 15 to September 15, was it?

Badarch -

Yes.

Buyandelger -

June, July, August till September.

Badarch -

A target plan was given, if the plan is not fulfilled, they had to milk the cows until October.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Yes.

Buyandelger -

Until October, but would the cows yield milk?

Badarch -

Of course, but volume is less.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Milk quality is very high in September, isn’t it?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

In September and October milk is very thick, fatty and fine. That was why the cream of milk factories was the thickest in September.

Buyandelger -

But milk yield was somewhat lower, wasn’t it?

Badarch -

Yield will become lower. Milk is fatty in September and October.

Buyandelger -

It has more fat.

Badarch -

Yes, very nice.

Buyandelger -

Were milk farms, dairy farms and milk processing factories all situated in one place? Or were they located separately? The milk was transported, processed and butter was produced, yeah?

Badarch -

What was called the milk processing shop or section was situated separately in each case.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Cream and butter processing was separate.

Buyandelger -

What was the structure (of that processing)?

Badarch -

The milk was put into separator and cream and casein were produced.

Buyandelger -

Yes.

Badarch -

Cream flowed out through one pipe, casein through the other pipe.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

The cream was churned and butter was produced.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Then as I remember 100 kg barrels were filled with the butter.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

The butter in 100 kg barrels - the masters who churned the butter were trained through training seminars. Butter was wrapped in pergamenous paper I think salt was added, that was how butter was made. And it was transported away. Well what was special about that period? It was in the 1970s.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Have you heard about the Milk factory of Ih Tamir of Arhangai aimag?

Buyandelger -

I have heard.

Badarch -

Well Professor Nyamaa of the Agricultural Institute came here to launch it.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He was Inner Mongolian.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He advanced the idea, ordered and brought equipments from Poland. And he established a factory called the factory of Mongolia dairy products, and used technology for producing Mongolian dairy products.

Buyandelger -

Here in Ih Tamir?

Badarch -

Yes. In the north.

Buyandelger -

Was Minjüür guai the chairman during that period?

Badarch -

Minjüür guai was the chairman, the cooperative was located in the north. Many foreigners used to visit the factory.

Buyandelger -

Yeah?

Badarch -

They visited it with interest. I know Nyamaa. When I was studying at the 10 year school 25 children arrived from Inner Mongolia.

Buyandelger -

When was it? In the ‘40s?

Badarch -

I think in 1945.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I surmise, 25 children came from Inner Mongolia, Chakhars and Uzemchins were among them - there are many national minorities in Inner Mongolia.

Buyandelger -

Yes.

Badarch -

Nyamaa was among the arrivals, he graduated from the Agricultultural institute and was a professor there, he is a great man.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He came here and built the Mongolian dairy factory, there was also an alcohol factory where they produced the alcoholic drink arhi or vodka.

Buyandelger -

I see?

Badarch -

Mongolian dairy products and arhi.

Buyandelger -

What was the (brand) name of that arkhi?

Badarch -

Well “Tamiryn arhi” of Ih Tamir Mongolian dairy factory.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Was it similar in proof to the Mongolian arhi (Milk alcohol)...

Badarch -

Mostly it was distilled like today industrially, it was probably made by diluting pure spirit.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It was exactly like the products of factory alcoholic drinks, it had its own name brand, it was just a simple strong alcoholic drink.

Buyandelger -

So was it a spirit made of dairy products?

Badarch -

A spirit made of dairy products.

Buyandelger -

Was very strong?

Badarch -

Yeah, it was very strong.

Buyandelger -

Very strong?

Badarch -

Yes. The first distillation in general was made the Mongolian way, but later when it was distilled for the second time, it became rather strong. I tasted it, it was a terribly strong spirit. Later it was refined further and, probably, its quality was improved.

Buyandelger -

Until when did the factory exist?

Badarch -

It was in operation from 1976 and after 4 or 5 years it was closed.

Buyandelger -

Why was it closed?

Badarch -

That man left and those who remained were not really ready or able to operate the factory on their own, and it closed down, it existed, I think, until ’82 or ‘83.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It had a big cauldron for boiling milk.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

The distiller for alcohol was installed separately.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

The foreign equipment was more advanced. There were big nickel containers, equipment operated by electricity.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Milk was left to ferment...

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

That is what is called now the dairy products factory of Arhangai

Buyandelger -

Аа ha

Badarch -

Herders know. Many of these products are delivered at markets in Ulaanbaatar. We have also a research institute. They produce milk here.

Buyandelger -

They make them at (sum) center?

Badarch -

I think so, they bring (milk) from countryside and produce there.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

We had two famous scientists, one has passed away recently. There are another 2 or 3 persons. Two of them are elders. Sharhüü and Lhamjav both. It is said that Lhamjav has graduated in Irkutsk in livestock grazing.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Sharhüü spent one year in Kazakstan in the field of cashmere and locally bred sheep. It is better to interview them if you are interested in research work. Also there is Dambiihorol darga. He is a doctor of agriculture.

Buyandelger -

I do not know him

Badarch -

Probably you do not know, he is about 57 or 58 years old. The branch of the research institute on animal husbandry of the high mountain zone is in Ih Tamir. They do a lot of work.

Buyandelger -

With whom do I need to meet?

Badarch -

Аа?

Buyandelger -

With whom do I need to meet?

Badarch -

Just ask Dambiihorol

Buyandelger -

Dambii..

Badarch -

Dambiihorol, doctor Dambiihorol is the director

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

One of peculiarities of Ih Tamir is that it had a station of a research institute here.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Later it became a branch institute

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

If you meet with these two persons...

Buyandelger -

Are they still here?

Badarch -

Yes they are alive, Lhamjav is an old person

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

If you meet him he will tell you a lot. Animal husbandry, agriculture...

Buyandelger -

What was his occupation? Lhagvajav, what did he do?

Badarch -

Research work only

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Both live here now?

Badarch -

His field of research was the pasture of animal husbandry, Dambiikhorol’s research was yak, local breeds of yak

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

You could get good information if you talk to them?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Where have you been during collectivization period?

Badarch -

Collectivization period? When it was first founded?

Buyandelger -

The collectivization movement in 59…

Badarch -

in 59?

Buyandelger -

Which one was it in 59 ?

Badarch -

I do not remember previous ones

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

In 59 I was in my sum.

Buyandelger -

How it was carried out in those days? That collectivization?

Badarch -

Аh people travelled around the countryside and talked about the advantage of collective labor, saying there shouldn’t be selfish capitalists. You should unite your hearts and minds in the socialist way, you should collectivize livestock and have public property amongst yourselves, a family should retain only 3 cows, 20 or 30 heads of sheep, 2-3 horses to ride which is sufficient for a household. The rest of the livestock should be collectivized. There were households with tremendous numbers of livestock.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

So that way all of the livestock was collectivized.

Buyandelger -

Were there such arat (commoner)? I am interested in them.

Badarch -

None remains alive from those people, all had passed away.

Buyandelger -

None. Probably there are their children, yeah?

Badarch -

There are their children. Yes.

Buyandelger -

Аа ha.

Badarch -

There is one Molom, in Hujirt.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He has over 300 sheep. A wonderful old man.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

A genuine free and easy Mongolian man. He, they say, opened the door of the sheep pen and gave his sheep herd to the cooperative.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. But what did he retain and how did he carry on his livelihood?

Badarch -

He must have kept some animals for himself.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Many who had a significant number of livestock did collectivize their livestock.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Well there was one Tserenbaljir who had a herd of over 1000 sheep and he joined the cooperative, this concerns only Hujirt sum in particular.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

There was an old man called Lümbeg, who also had a big herd of sheep.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

And they did not care very much. People in the past were honest and dignified. What I would call it is the Mongolian sagacity, yeah?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

They would not be too testy, they would prefer to accommodate than confront. So in ‘59 they agreed and joined the cooperatives.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

And what happened was since a cooperative was being established those who were joining if they had 3 cows, 30 sheep and 2 horses they wanted to collectivize the rest.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Then the owners were made herders, livestock was entrusted back to them. yeah?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Actually speaking frankly herders were, in fact, very happy in the previous society.

Buyandelger -

Were they?

Badarch -

A man would receive 400-500 head of animals (sheep and goat) as a herding unit.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

They’d receive a plan to supply cashmere and other products. Herders who did their best to fulfill that plan, in my capacity as the chairman of the veteren’s committee, I paid special attention to them.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Last year I received 90 herders.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

This year the number has increased to 100. Our governors are young fellows, very nice young guys. So I gave them an idea - let’s bring our herders who spend the whole day in a field - make them feel happy at least for a day and we invited 10 elders from every bag, if you were here you, at least, could have met some of them.

Buyandelger -

Can we say that burden of the herders was much heavier during the socialist period?

Badarch -

Possibly. Pitiful and it was very hard. They toiled between sunrise and sunset without a moment to take rest. I can add more on this account. They truly labored hard. Because of that some contacted infectious diseases from the herd including the milkmaids and others. Very pitiful.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

During the previous society it happened that people were victims, they had to carry a heavy burden.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Natural disasters like zud (heavy snow and cold) struck. Problems with fodder, high plan of milk supply. Is it still recording?

Buyandelger -

It is still recording.

Badarch -

Take whatever you need and erase the rest.

Buyandelger -

Okay, I will do.

Badarch -

You should edit it.

Buyandelger -

I’ll edit it, you should not worry.

Badarch -

You can say it is not so good and have it edited. That was the actual situation. Therefore I always keep elder herdsmen close to my heart.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

That’s a policy I maintain.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I think of giving them, the countryside folks, a joy. So I recently received about 100 of them. We have about 10 people in the staff of the administration. They were all at managerial posts 17 of them such as sum chairman trade and procurement unit, we had the shop, trade and procurement unit, various services in the sum, yeah?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Some are left out without an office to take care of them. I take some from them, mostly people from the countryside.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

We’ve 5 bags, 6 bags. 10 each from the 3 countryside bags, from 4 bags 40 persons, I meet bag officials and give them the instruction to include mostly herders and milkmaids, who had been working hard without interruption. That was how they were included.

Buyandelger -

Аа ha. Those milkmaids, let’s take horse herders of the cooperative. One herder tended many horses? How many horses did a cooperative horse herder tend?

Badarch -

The most was 300.

Buyandelger -

Highest number was 300, which is a lot.

Badarch -

A lot.

Buyandelger -

Yes.

Badarch -

Then that herd of 300 is segregated by the herd of each stallion, yeah?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Mares are milked. Then the herder has the plan to supply the hair, horse hair.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

The plan to supply mane and tail hairs was given. So think about it. Though Mongols tend their livestock that provides them everything, tending livestick is a hellish labor. Very hard labor.

Buyandelger -

Hard labor.

Badarch -

A very difficult job.

Buyandelger -

If a wolf kills an animal does the herder have to pay for the loss?

Badarch -

Has to pay.

Buyandelger -

He or she personally?

Badarch -

If killed by a wolf or beast or drowned in river or under snow the herder had to pay the price. Sometimes people were in debt because of that. And they were summoned to the meeting cooperative presidium, cooperative managers were comprised of 9 people.

Buyandelger -

I see, who were they?

Badarch -

There is the chairman.

Buyandelger -

There was also a deputy chairman, yeah?

Badarch -

There is a deputy chairman.

Buyandelger -

There was also the chairman of the party committee.

Badarch -

Party committee was separate, it was a political organization. Economic matters were managed by the cooperative presidium.

Buyandelger -

Oh yeah?

Badarch -

The presidium managed and directed all activities like animal husbandry, farming and others. There were many different subject matters such as pensions and benefits, rewards and encouragements, they were all decided by us. We rewarded our herders generously.

Buyandelger -

Cooperative herders?

Badarch -

We paid special attention to the cooperative milkmaids. When you now think about it their job was really hard.

Buyandelger -

Hard. Hard.

Badarch -

It was like that, I don’t know whether people today have any idea about it or not?

Buyandelger -

At milk farms milkmaids got up early at dawn and started milking the cows..

Badarch -

They got up at 3 a.m. in the morning to milk the cows.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

While travelling in the countryside and spending a night with a family they ‘d get up at 3 a.m. Pitiful. In the cold they hands were stiff and cold. Milking a cow is not an easy job, don’t you think so?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

So they’d start milking at 3 a.m.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Did they milk two times a day?

Badarch -

Two times. And then they had cow herders and calf herders. Labor was organized in stages and organized very efficiently.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

And there are the milkmaids, they milk the cows and gave the milk to the milk farm.

Buyandelger -

Now they themselves tend the cowherd.

Badarch -

Before, a cowherder tended the cows, a calfherder the calves.

Buyandelger -

And brought them at the time of milking.

Badarch -

Brought at the time of milking. At farms the herds were examined by vets and the old and sick, infected with brucellosis, were segregated and culled. The same was done with the sheep herd. Separated animals were culled.

Buyandelger -

Аа аа. How about the salary?

Badarch -

But the labor wage was low.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Very little. 150, 200 the highest 400, very a few received 300-400 (tögrögs).

Buyandelger -

That is that in a month?

Badarch -

According to the exchange rate of the time monthly wage was 120, 130 even 70, 80.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. The highest wage they received was close to 300, was it?

Badarch -

The highest was 300, 400. That was it. At the end of year 20 percent of the annual wage given in bulk.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Part of labor wage was kept and distributed, yeah?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

That was when they did receive a substantial sum.

Buyandelger -

How much did they receive?

Badarch -

Advance payment was as I said earlier 80 to 100 but now received from 1000 to 2000 probably, yes. It was like that.

Buyandelger -

How were goods provided?

Badarch -

As far as goods were concerned, there were the sum trade and procurement unit and trade agents in the countryside who sold goods and bought raw materials) They sold flour, rice, brick tea and some other goods.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It was like that. We didn’t experience shortages of foodstuffs such as flour and rice, the supply was not bad. There was the flour mill of Har Horin not far from here.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Yes. There were flour mills in Bulgan, Darhan so we had no shortage of that. At that time supply of flour and rice was not too bad.

Buyandelger -

You were in charge of cadres (personnel). Will you tell me in detail about the cadres of that time. You were in contact with many people.

Badarch -

I worked with many people. As I reflect now I knew in person all the milkmaids and herders in the countryside.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

When I speak of people I know them very well.

Buyandelger -

Please tell me about them?

Badarch -

They all had their files. Registration and study of the cadres were carried out at a very high level.

Buyandelger -

Okay?

Badarch -

There were cards, and personal files. Responsibility was very high in those days - personal files of every herder was updated. Accomplishments were recorded, so were awards and punishments. Characteristics, discipline and trustworthiness of the herder was also all recorded in the file.

Buyandelger -

Well?

Badarch -

And later when he or she retired on pension it was given to their children.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Well now when you come to retirement age this is what you need the most. Now some of countryside folks when they want to retire of old age their file can’t be found.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Because of their own carelessness they’d lost their file of record. So now the burden of courts has, apparently, increased.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Lawyers have to prove how many years they’ve worked.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It has to be verified. Get attestation or evidence. Check files and registration of the cooperative, in our cooperative approximately 600-700 people were employed, that was so.

Buyandelger -

Well?

Badarch -

As for members we had about 1700 of them.

Buyandelger -

So there were so many.

Badarch -

Yes, many.

Buyandelger -

You worked with all of them?

Badarch -

I worked with them.

Buyandelger -

Yes.

Badarch -

As far as the employees are concerned I know almost all those who are now over 60. Without looking into the registry I can say to a bag chairman there is a man with such last and family name in your bag.

Buyandelger -

You must have memories of many people - both good and bad memories which are still embedded in your mind. It would be nice if you could to tell me about those recollections?

Badarch -

What memories?

Buyandelger -

Any recollections, that are still in your mind. There must different memories from them?

Badarch -

Well, not much, I told you earlier. Life for cooperative herders in those days was very hard. As far as the work is concerned its burden was very heavy, as for livelihood probably it was different - both good and bad. However, it doesn’t mean that no attention was paid to them. There are those who live very well within the group of their relatives such as those who live in the uppermost part of Höh Nuur (Blue lake) bagh. At present there are Batzaan, Dariijavyn Tömörbaatar and Gandangiin Pürev. There is a woman called Üsnii, who was a milkmaid, a sheep herder and raised young animals, she is rather old. There are others further in Bugatyn tal (Elk field). There is one called Sandag and the offspring of Sodnomtseren. Yeah, from Bugat in the north there is Dandangiin Lhagva. They have good life, there are many from veteran members of who now live a very good life.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Yes. Yes. Among the herders.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I said at the meeting just a few moments ago that there are many who live well and who raised their children well and continue their livelihood from the previous society. Now it is said that the herds were privatized to the herders. But actually that herd was the fruit of the herders’ labor.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

We got in privatization the herds they raised while many had no livestock at all before the privatization.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

All the herd was privatized.

Buyandelger -

How did the privatization proceed?

Badarch -

In our place privatization was carried out not so badly. It didn’t cause much argument, maybe there were a few such instances. Noone was mistreated. In privatization people got very good shares.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Today some have 100 heads of milk cows.

Buyandelger -

Оh yeah.

Badarch -

Great, isn’t it.

Buyandelger -

Yes, it is.

Badarch -

There is a herder with 2000 heads of livestock. Plenty of them have over 100 heads of livestock, many over 200 livestock. Once the livestock is privatized, people work very hard indeed for their own self interests.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Now you don’t have to prod them to make hay, ask where is the hay you made for winter, since the herds had been privatized people had become more responsible. They want to overcome the winter without any loss. Because the herd is his or her own private herd.

Buyandelger -

Were collective’s administrative staff living in the centre able to get any livestock in privatization?

Badarch -

Administrative staff did not. Those who belonged to the collective did. I don’t think administrative staff got in privatization livestock from the administration. But they, most probably, did get shares among themselves from privatization of immovable assets.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Employees of the service sector got shares, probably, from sales of the building or got sewing machines as their shares?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I think this was how they got their shares. Well then a rather wise person once said in general both of these societies - socialism and democracy are deceptive.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Deceptive. Both are deceptive. There is no such thing as this one is good and that one is bad. Both are lies. As far as I remember Tüdev guai said this.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Do you have anything on this account?

Buyandelger -

I don’t remember.

Badarch -

That is what Tüdev guai said. Both are lies.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I would not badmouth this society, the society where I live. But today it is very hard. Speaking of democracy. Democratic society is nice. Mongols are moving towards this nice society, from the point of view of human rights things are getting very nice.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It became free, people got rich quickly. They drive nice cars and live very well. But there are many bad things. Mothers are killed by their children, yeah? It is sensationalized in the press. Husband is killed by his wife. He kills his wife. Kills his wife and cuts off her head and throws it away. Isn’t it happening?

Buyandelger -

Why so much brutality?

Badarch -

Аа?

Buyandelger -

Why are they getting so violent?

Badarch -

You should know the reason. You are an important person who holds a high position in the public media. You should have heard these things.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Yes, I do hear about such things.

Badarch -

Crying children are digging garbage, aren’t they?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Parents become alcoholics and children turn to life on the street, information to this account are published in the press often.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It is really sad, no one pays attention, neither the mother nor the father cares about it.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

The father is an alcoholic and divorced, the wife has no job. What can she do.

Buyandelger -

Probably this is a problem that exists everywhere but it is very tough.

Badarch -

Well probably it happens everywhere anyway. But this is a feature of society.

Buyandelger -

It was also present during the socialist period.

Badarch -

Аа hа.

Buyandelger -

“Gerelt zam” was a rather good cooperative. You worked with two brilliant chairmen. Mongolian people know Minjüür guai.

Badarch -

Аа yes.

Buyandelger -

Who was the other?

Badarch -

Gendensambuu.

Buyandelger -

Tell me about him. He worked for 10 years ...

Badarch -

I know him.

Buyandelger -

I don’t know him that well.

Badarch -

You don’t know him?

Buyandelger -

I don’t know.

Badarch -

He was a highly educated man, highly competent as well, zoo-technician, poet, wrote verses for songs, was very demanding.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He was a very demanding man. Under leadership of a demanding man workers are usually very responsible. If it was required to come to work exactly at 9 and finish the work at 6 p.m. they’d do it.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

At office he often called a meeting and gave instructions. Received information, criticized, scolded, pointed out the drawbacks. That was the way he worked, very capable. He was very good at developing new ideas, without doubt, for he was a writer ...

Buyandelger -

Namely what did he conceive?

Badarch -

He used to write poems. There is a work by him entitled “Densen bugui” ...

Buyandelger -

I’m not asking about his literary works. I am interested mainly in what he did for the cooperatiove for the people?

Badarch -

Though he was veterinary-technician he knew a lot about animal husbandry.

Buyandelger -

Well then?

Badarch -

He gave sound and professional advice on wintering the livestock, receiving young animals and on their feeding. When the other animals were inspected he knew it was different for a person with good knowledge. He had leadership skills. Many veterinarians and specialists in animal husbandry were appointed as cooperative chairmen.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

There was an economist under his leadership.

Buyandelger -

Did animals get more healthy and numbers increase during his time?

Badarch -

Numbers increased. Yes the number of animals has increased. Locals said he was a bit rude.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

But not that bad.

Buyandelger -

What was it like his rudeneess? Example?

Badarch -

He would scold. Scold and put forward demands. You did not do that. Your draft does not meet requirements. What else. You are not doing your you’re your working hours are not fully utilized. You are not giving enough attention to your work instead you take care of your own herds. When the time for harvesting and haymaking came he would organize 20 or 30 people and lead them himself.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He went with us

Buyandelger -

How did they prepare hay and fodder for animals at that time?

Badarch -

Hay was very well prepared.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. How was it organized?

Badarch -

Mechanized brigades. Productivity was high with the techniques of mechanized brigades.

Buyandelger -

Yes?

Badarch -

Grass in these valleys was all cut down. Grass was packed by 25 kgs and it looked like sheep grazing on pasture. Then they were stacked. There was a fodder unit over that mountain pass.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

One stack was made of 150 packs.

Buyandelger -

Аа ha.

Badarch -

People knew how to make it. They would go themselves.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It was made by 4, 5, 10, 20 and 30 rounds. It was distributed from here in case of zud (snow storm).

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

And another fodder for animals is bran. It was brought from the Ulaanbaatar flour mill and set in piles. He had a good management for animal husbandry. He had high requirements but he was a generous and productive man. He was a tough and principled man. Nowadays…

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

When an aimag representative came and was not happy with something he would make his subordinates work, with insistence and administrative method. He was tough. He would wake up officials and receive information on how the work was going on and was inclined to demand and order.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He put tough demands. He was such a person. When told that a mother was about to give birth in Bugat and there was no car, in those days there was a shortage of transport. At that time the cooperative had only one Russian jeep - the 69.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He even sent a lorry to bring the expectant mother. He was very responsible, paid much attention to the health of the herders, visited them often and was responsible in that sense.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He was such a person.

Buyandelger -

Did you have a branch clinic and a medical doctor in Ih Tamir?

Badarch -

There was no medical doctor, only an assistant doctor.,Later we had a doctor.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

There was a rest house for expectant mothers.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

The cooperative had built it. On the recommendation from the doctor that expectant mothers rested for 14 days.

Buyandelger -

Was there a house?

Badarch -

There was a house. The cooperative provided the funding.

Buyandelger -

Before giving birth?

Badarch -

On instructions of the doctor mothers spent 14 days in the rest home before giving birth.

Buyandelger -

And did they give birth there?

Badarch -

If they were expected to give birth soon they stayed here under doctor’s observation and most of them gave birth there.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. After they gave birth what did they do? Were they brought home after a few days there or what did they do?

Badarch -

After a few days they were brought home, the cooperative supplied the transport. Shall we continue to speak about the past along this line?.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. You had worked with two chairmen. Should I say working the methods of the chairmen, how were their methods? What was the difference? You had worked with two great chairmen for 20 years?

Badarch -

Minjüür guai used to travel a lot. He used to travel to other places and bring back wool, you had a target plan in wool supply which was the most difficult thing. It was very difficult to meet that plan. He sent people to Bayanhongor and other places to buy wool. Hay and fodder were cheaper in the East and when we had a bad summer and vegetation was poor he went to Bulgan and brought animal fodder. On economic matters Minjüür guai was different. He could find things and could spend them wisely during Minjüür guai’s time we had many different economic units. He created pig and poultry farming.

Buyandelger -

And what else did you have during Minjüür guai?

Badarch -

Slaughter house, barley flour shop, animal fodder factory etc ...

Buyandelger -

That was all created by Minjüür guai ...

Badarch -

The fodder factory continued to operate during Gendensambuu, Actually it was already in operation. Pig and poultry farms were created. He spoke often about Mongolian dairy farms.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It was the work of Nyamaa, scientific researcher. Nyamaa guai established the factory.

Buyandelger -

Was it during Minjüür guai?

Badarch -

It was not really up to the standards of dairy factories of developed countries, it was a small factory called Mongolian dairy factory, a small Mongolian factory - Nyamaa carried out scientific research and established it.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. I think it was during Minjüür darga?

Badarch -

It was. Equipment was imported from Poland, the cooperative must have paid for the equipment. The cooperative gave it. Minjüür guai was responsible personally for building the cultutral centre. It was built according to an approved architectural design.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

There is similar building in Ulaanbaatar. It has this hood-like top. But that hood was not erected, it was built flat-roofed. Construction cost the cooperative 500 million. The building was in bad shape, water was seeping through the roof. It was repaired recently with 30 million from World vision and now is in very good shape.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Then it seems to me members of the Great hural also gave a small amount

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Your Ih Tamir sum had a construction brigade I think, is it?

Badarch -

We had a construction unit. Not really a unit but a brigade. It was a brigade with about 20 members.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

The brigades built small buildings and animal shelters. It even travelled to Ömnögovi to build livestock shelters. Minjüür guai...

Buyandelger -

Had a construction brigade.

Badarch -

The construction brigade travelled to Ömnögovi to build in one of the sums, which I don’t remember, apartment house. As payment he brought many camels and sold them. Minjüür guai was such a business minded man, he was good at that.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

In the south of the Naadam field, in front of it there is something small made of cement (he did not specify what it is), where Naadam celebration is held. That was brought from Bayanhongor he spoke to Russian specialists and brought it here. It is very difficult to transport it.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He,himself, was engaged in arranging transport and the crane to load it ...

Buyandelger -

Is it still there?

Badarch -

It is there in the south from here.

Buyandelger -

This means a ring.

Badarch -

Naadam field.

Buyandelger -

Yes, Naadam in other words it is a stadium.

Badarch -

Аа yes, yes, it is.

Buyandelger -

Did he also have it built?

Badarch -

Yes he did it. After he became a Hero of labor things changed drastically.

Buyandelger -

Yeah?

Badarch -

A hero would contact at a high level, at Council of Minister level, would go to Ministers directly and got what he wanted and built this and that here and there. If he wanted to do something it was done immediately. Well the other side was that he could not get heavy cranes and other mechanisms.

Buyandelger -

Yes, it was not available to them.

Badarch -

That is problem.

Buyandelger -

Yes.

Badarch -

But he arranged the matter after discussing it with the Russian military. This is very large, probably, almost two meters high.

Buyandelger -

How was it brought?

Badarch -

By truck ...

Buyandelger -

By heavy truck?

Badarch -

It was brought by heavy truck.

Buyandelger -

In those days the road over Tsagaan davaa (pass) was very hard to traverse.

Badarch -

Difficult, difficult. The road over the pass and Tsagaan davaa was very hard to overcome. Now it is easy. It was cut and good road was built. Minjüür guai did not mind Tsagaamn davaa. The northern side of this pass was cultuvated, it was a green filed..

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

In the valleys on the side vegetables were grown. Potatoes, cabbage, there were quite a few people in the brigade of vegetable growers.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

There was. Potatoes and vegetables were harvested. And the harvest was sold, we grew vegetables during Gendensambuu darga, people worked on it.

Buyandelger -

He was very market minded man, was he?

Badarch -

Аа?

Buyandelger -

Minjüür gyuai was very much market minded...

Badarch -

He was market minded. In addition to it he could find almost anything, good for achieving his objectives and accumulating reserve. Later he went to the cooperatives.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

In the cooperatives he did quite a few things for some time. I heard that he was enlarging a rest home building. Last year Minjüür guai came here.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He was 96 years old. He met and greeted us and told us that since he had become Hero of labor in Ih Tamir, he kept Tamir close to his heart.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He married a young woman. Did you know that?

Buyandelger -

No, I didn’t.

Badarch -

He has young wife.

Buyandelger -

Did he divorce or did his (previous) wife pass away?

Badarch -

His wife passed away.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He married a woman while he was in Bogd sum of Övörhangai aimag, and he served there, I think he has 7 or 8 children.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Did he leave Ih Tamir himself? Or the government appointed him to another place?

Badarch -

He was appointed from above. You know there was the Council of agricultural cooperatives.

Buyandelger -

Yes, there was.

Badarch -

He went there to be an advisor then came to the cooperative “Pioneer’s path”.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

The personal story of Minjüür guai, I’ll tell you, it is between us, you should not talk about it to others. Another man’s life story is not my concern. He is man who suffered a lot.

Buyandelger -

Is he?

Badarch -

Yes.

Buyandelger -

Оh, what happened?

Badarch -

He lived with his mother and was rather poor, when his mother died he lived with a brother of his mother. Apparently that brother took him to his family.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He used to work as a caravan driver of an ox cart. It was his life. He suffered because of his dependence on the stepmother.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

the poor man himself told the story, he is very frank, actually he is a brilliant storyteller.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He walked from aimag centre to Tariat.

Buyandelger -

Hnn.

Badarch -

The distance is 180-190 km.

Buyandelger -

How many km is it from here to Tariat?

Badarch -

It is 190 km from Arhangai.

Buyandelger -

Tariat? Then it is a considerable distance.

Badarch -

Rather far.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I’ve been to Tariat. The road is so - so. You are driving a jeep, aren’t you.

Buyandelger -

Yes, a jeep.

Badarch -

for a small car it is very difficult.

Buyandelger -

Whom should I see in Tariat, can you give me the names?

Badarch -

Okay. He is a young man from Tariat.

Buyandelger -

Young or old doesn’t matter.

Badarch -

I think his name is Bayandagva? Bayandagva could give you plenty of information concerning Tariat, Bayandagva.

Buyandelger -

What is his occupation?

Badarch -

He was the governor but relieved form the post recently, I think he is now teaching. He was a teacher.

Buyandelger -

yeah?

Badarch -

Bayanbadagva his name.

Buyandelger -

Tariat is rich in history.

Badarch -

It has history.

Buyandelger -

I would like to talk about that history.

Badarch -

OK. Just put the name Jigjid

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Jigjid. You are not going to Hangai, right

Buyandelger -

Not going to Hangai. We will pass through Öndör Ulaan as it is on the way, right? It will not deviate from the road? Öndör Ulaan it is not off the road?

Badarch -

On your way you want to go to Öndör Ulaan?

Buyandelger -

When we go from Ih Tamir to Öndör Ulaan is there deviation of the road?

Badarch -

Not much deviation. It is about 10 km

Buyandelger -

What does Jigjid do?

Badarch -

He is the chairman of elders/veterans. He was in charge of cultural issues..

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

An old man. He could not come to our gathering in aimag. I do not know much about Tariat, do not remember anyone else. Just meet Jigtjid

Buyandelger -

Yes

Badarch -

He dedicated all his life to art and culture, his education level is not high but old men know a lot more.

Buyandelger -

Yes, of course. Did you know about the 1932 uprising of lamas?

Badarch -

I have no idea about it at all. There was a lama living near to us.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Very good lama. He knew a lot about religious matters

Buyandelger -

Who is he?

Badarch -

He passed away. He used to converse about it

Buyandelger -

What did he say? What did you hear?

Badarch -

Uprising of lamas was suppressed by force. Was suppressed by force. He did not give much importance. A group of lamas was named as counterrevolutionaries and their fight was called an uprising and it was suppressed by force. He did not tell details of it as he was himself a religious man.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

You need such persons

Buyandelger -

I wish to hear about it

Badarch -

Аа?

Buyandelger -

What did he tell you?

Badarch -

he told me about the suppression by force. That was what he said.

Buyandelger -

it is understandable that it was suppressed by armed force. Did he say specific things about it? That is interesting, facts about what happened.

Badarch -

I do not know about details. They tried to protect and preserve their religious doctrine, of course, they should. Religious people.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Probably that was how they fought

Buyandelger -

Is it true that there was a tank?

Badarch -

It seems it is true. You better meet Jigjid and get some information. There are not many left from their generation.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

They are about 70 or 80 years old?

Buyandelger -

About incarnated lama Zaya Bandid, generally there were many temples in Arhangai…

Badarch -

About that .... There is a man …

Buyandelger -

Is it Yadmaa?

Badarch -

Yadamsuren

Buyandelger -

I met with that person

Badarch -

He knows. He writes books

Buyandelger -

I met him

Badarch -

If you meet him he has good knowledge about incarnated lama Zaya Bandid, origin and history of religion, temples of Arhangai

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He told you

Buyandelger -

Yes. My colleague had an interview with him.

Badarch -

He is a very knowledgeable person.

Buyandelger -

Yes he is quite good

Badarch -

He writes books

Buyandelger -

He write books

Badarch -

He has mental …

Buyandelger -

Mental ability

Badarch -

He has good mental ability, he is talkative.

Buyandelger -

Looks like he has a good collection

Badarch -

He collects a lot. If you meet him perhaps you would get a lot of information

Buyandelger -

If you meet Byambadagva and Jigjid of Tariat you will get orientation

Badarch -

Get it, get it. See this Jigjid. But there is no need to tell him I told you to see him..

Buyandelger -

May be better to tell him that you told me to see him. I’ll say you told me about him since I’m going to ask his whereabouts from the locals.

Badarch -

Just tell him I saw Badarch guai.

Buyandelger -

Right.

Badarch -

Your homeland is Tariat, since you held a responsible position there, there should be people whom you would know, yeah?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. You held many positions, important positions. What do you think of society? It is tough, yeah?

Badarch -

I told you earlier. It is hard.

Buyandelger -

For example how is the livelihood of Ih Tamir population?

Badarch -

Livelihood is not very good, not that good. Among senior citizens 50 or 60 live in poverty.

Buyandelger -

I see.

Badarch -

A phrase “impoverished” has been introduced, hasn’t it? May be it is a language culture.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

They are called households in need of living expenses. There are about 50 or 60 such households. They were called marginalized or people in dire need. They don’t receive pensions. But they are not covered by other social cares.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

The society cares about precious human beings, marvelous humans, which is the one thing that deserves praise in this society, yeah?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It is distinct (from the other society), isn’t it? State cares, government cares, and welfare ...

Buyandelger -

How many households are there in Ih Tamir sum?

Badarch -

Wait, you said how many households? I Forget. I know only the veterans. There are about 400 households of veterans. Veterans.

Buyandelger -

There was a bath house in the past?

Badarch -

There was a bath house.

Buyandelger -

Do you have one now?

Badarch -

Now the school has one. It was built by a project. There is a woman who is trying to implement a project to build a bath house. She is a daughter of my younger sibling.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. She is going to build a bath house?

Badarch -

She wants to build a bath house as a project. In the centre of the sum, the school has a bath house.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Do you have a clinic here?

Badarch -

We have a clinic.

Buyandelger -

What else?

Badarch -

Of social services there are school, clinic, nursery and kindergarten.

Buyandelger -

Is it a ten year school or an elementary school?

Badarch -

It is a 11 year middle school. Has it now become a 12 year school?

Buyandelger -

Probably a 12 year school.

Badarch -

It is going to be a 12 year school.

Buyandelger -

Do you have any consumer service facilities?

Badarch -

Nothing was left from the service sector, nothing at all.

Buyandelger -

During the socialist period and during privatization all of them disappeared?

Badarch -

All disappeared. And the veteran workers had no organization to belong to. I want to find an organization to belong to for those elders who have no organization of affiliation ...

Buyandelger -

does it mean the privatized assets were not operated but just liquidated?

Badarch -

In general just this had happened. Shares were given but there was no supervision over what was happening to the shares, no centralized oversight was in effect.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

The trade and procurement agency had been completely eliminated. Consumer service had disappeared completely. That was what happened. Well clinics and state organization are different.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Thank you very much. You couldn’t have spoken more clearly or in more detail.

Where was the monastery… where from Ih Tamir?

Badarch -

Now there are elders.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. What happened there, at what age did you visit the monastery to see Maidar (Maitreya Buddha of future) celebration?

Badarch -

It was in 1935 when I was 7 years old with my mother.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

7 years old just before I was enrolled in school.

Buyandelger -

Celebration to welcome Maidar was held.

Badarch -

Welcoming the Maidar. I wonder whether there is anyone who has any information on that welcoming of Maidar? I was 7 years old and vaguely remember it.

Buyandelger -

Is it marvelous?

Badarch -

Astonishing.

Buyandelger -

Why?

Badarch -

Choijoo of Maidar was in great mask.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He came out at the end and made a circle around the monastery premise. He was seated in a coach and pulled by rope...

Buyandelger -

Okay?

Badarch -

Everyone pulled it.

Buyandelger -

Who was seated in the coach.

Badarch -

Choijoo himself was seated.

Buyandelger -

Okay?

Badarch -

And during the Maidar celebration...

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Black and white Tengers came out and debated in wisdom, they were in masks.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

One of them was pitch black, the other was snowy white. There was also the Gashaan khaan.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Gashaan khaan had a big head.

Buyandelger -

yeah?

Badarch -

In a mask.

Buyandelger -

Is that the white bearded old man?

Badarch -

Аа?

Buyandelger -

Is that the white bearded old man who they call White old man? Or not? He wears a mask. Or is it different?

Badarch -

I think it could be Gashuun khan…

Buyandelger -

Yes?

Badarch -

Usually he was followed by children with masks. At the direction where Maidar god comes…

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He maintains order, he whips disorderly children with nettles, Maidar was a big cultural event. It was terrific. Trumpets were blown and dances were performed.

Buyandelger -

Yes?

Badarch -

Young men wearing head masks performed dances, beautiful dresses, small bells on their dresses gave nice sounds

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Dances. Dances of Maidar

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

There were different characters. Black tenger, Blue tenger. Skulls. Monkeys

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

With monkey masks

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

They also danced.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Yes. People came wearing their best clothes. The head dress and the accessories of married women of that time were made of pure silver, special dresses?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Silver ornaments with dragons and other things were hanging on both sides of the dress

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Our mother used to dress this way. Yes. She was a small woman with fair complexion.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Maidar overwhelmed me. I cannot forget it even now.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

A wonderful religious custom

Buyandelger -

It was a good tradition

Badarch -

Wonderful. At that time.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Even now it is nice

Badarch -

Nice

Buyandelger -

It should be very interesting as it stayed in your heart even though you saw it at the age of 7.

Badarch -

Now they perform Tsam. It is exactly as Maidar performance

Buyandelger -

Аа hа. Is it generally similar? I saw some of their performance

Badarch -

Probably you know it now.

Buyandelger -

I saw some of them. Perhaps it does not catch up from that period.

Badarch -

At that time it was performed as a separate festival, a kind of naadam. There were long horns. Very long, big, huge horns

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Small trumpets were blown during dances. Dances were performed beautifully. Was it a religious naadam of Maidar? What was it?

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

About repression of 1937 or 1938 ?

Buyandelger -

Yes.

Badarch -

At that time lamas were arrested, I was 10 years old.. I was enrolled at primary school.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

In 1938. At that time..

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Religion was eliminated, right?

Buyandelger -

Right

Badarch -

Temples disappeared...

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Big, big Buddha images were destroyed, Khadags, tangad sutras were thrown, carried away by wind..

Buyandelger -

Hmm

Badarch -

Everywhere sutras were tossed into the wind

Buyandelger -

Hmm.

Badarch -

There was a small truck JIS-5 ,you know?

Buyandelger -

Yes

Badarch -

Lamas were loaded into it. Arrested lamas.

Buyandelger -

Hmm

Badarch -

With nice white teeth. Very nice young lamas were sat in line. With their yellow hats…

Buyandelger -

Hmm.

Badarch -

They were arrested. Taken away. I have a rather vague memory. I forgot to tell you earlier.

Buyandelger -

Poor things, all were executed perhaps. Poor fellows

Badarch -

Yes

Buyandelger -

Hmm

Badarch -

There are a few who served 10, 12 or 13 years in prison and released later.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Skilled craftsmen. I mentioned before. Correctional and educational center, now it is the court decision implementation authority.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

When I worked a chest was made for our personal use. It was made by a lama. It is forgotten until now

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

His name was Avirmed, a lama. Good looking, fat man with fair complexion

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

He made beautiful ornaments. Chests with lion images

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

It was decorated with flowers

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

I ordered 3 silver bowls for myself.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Now they talk about Dariganga making/style?

Buyandelger -

Yes

Badarch -

His work was as beautiful as that. He also made a bridle for me. Beautiful work.

Buyandelger -

Very skilled craftsmen, yes/

Badarch -

Definitely. They were.

Buyandelger -

Аа ha

Badarch -

Skilled artisans. Well educated people. Among those arrested lamas

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

That is the story about it. Story of the lamas of Khan Undur temple Бичлэг: №020

Buyandelger -

How was the summer of this year?

Badarch -

This year’s summer was not good. Not too good

Buyandelger -

Not good?

Badarch -

With late rain

Buyandelger -

When you worked in charge of cadres of the cooperative the weather was different, was it? germination of grass, yield of pastures?

Badarch -

Of course, it was different. Completely different

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

Summer. After 15th of June the cuckoo sang, trees were covered with mist. In hangai areas

Buyandelger -

Yes

Badarch -

Fresh, moist air

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

No dust. Deep green. By the beginning of July haymaking started. All the valleys of the mountains were covered by flowers. Beautiful flowers with various colours. But now, I was so sad when I went over there…

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

There was nothing there. It had become dried and withered. In the past many driven animals were seen grazing over there.

Buyandelger -

Аа hа.

Badarch -

You may know. You are young. Now animals are privately owned. The number of animals has multiplied. Goats, red, black goats, grazed separately. For the time being the life of herders has improved. They have vehicles, cars, TV, radio, they are provided with everything. But if the weather gets worse, there is a saying a rich man impoverishes in zud , a hero dies by one bullet.

Buyandelger -

Yes

Badarch -

If there is a zud it would devastate

Buyandelger -

What would they do

Badarch -

What to do. There are not many who have prepared enough hay and fodder.

Buyandelger -

What about the herders with private animals, do they make hay and fodder

Badarch -

They made hay. Now there is no grass to make. Maybe in forest clearings …

Buyandelger -

:Hmm. Then it would be difficult if it snows a lot

Badarch -

Not only difficult. It would be a disaster

Buyandelger -

In the period of socialism it was comparatively better for harvesting as grass yield was better.

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Interviews, transcriptions and translations provided by The Oral History of Twentieth Century Mongolia, University of Cambridge. Please acknowledge the source of materials in any publications or presentations that use them.

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